欢迎来到火药桶点燃创业公司第26集。今天我特别为你们准备了一集特别的节目。这是手工制作的。它是精心策划的，是手工制作的。你甚至可以说这是一集定制播客，因为这是现在非常流行的广告词。但我是认真的，我们从前25集的节目中抽出了一些最精彩的时刻，加上一些新的见解。我是主持人马特·亨克勒我是verge的创始人兼首席执行官，这是一个由当地社区组成的网络，为有吸引力的科技公司提供全球服务。118金博宝这些公司并不是普通的科技公司。118金博宝这些都是在硅谷以外地区发展壮大118金博宝的科技公司。 But first, I want to give a massive shout out to our partners at powderkeg. This week’s episode, and actually the last 25 weeks of episodes of powderkeg have been brought to you by developer town. And if you don’t know developer town yet, you soon will because developer town helps enterprise companies move like a startup. They have leveraged years of experience working with startups, and they’re able to help companies better understand the viability of potential software solutions. You can find out more about these guys at developer town.com/powderkeg. But you can also find them on Twitter, Instagram, all the social media outlets at developer town. And I hope you give them a shout out because they’ve been amazing, amazing partners, I want to say thanks to them, because they let us experiment, play and test new approaches to powderkeg. As we’ve grown this podcast now to 1000s of downloads per month, since we’ve launched the thing, they’ve been with us since the beginning. And I can’t express enough what great partners they are. Please make sure you check them out at developer town.com/powderkeg. You won’t regret it. These guys are awesome. I mean New York City all week, this week to record a whole new set of interviews in person with some incredible guests. And I’ll be doing that throughout the rest of this week. And we’ll be releasing those in the next several weeks. So you want to make sure you’re subscribed to the powderkeg podcast. If you haven’t already, you can also find us at just our handy link powderkeg.co/itunes. Go to that link, you can find us subscribe, leave a review. I am in New York City this week, and I’m staying on a first floor walk up. So if you hear some street noise, just treat that as ambient mood sound effects, right. It’s all here to enhance your listening pleasure. But I really hope we’re capturing the authenticity in this podcast. I want to be real with you guys, and real with the journey as we’re growing this thing. And that’s one thing I’ve noticed throughout all of these episodes, authenticity is really what I want to talk to you about today. Because with every episode I’ve recorded in these first 25 episodes, we’ve always been able to find several vulnerable, authentic moments with our guests. They’re the very best parts. And what I realized is that these authentic moments happen when our guests are telling their personal stories, and usually their stories that they’re telling for the first time, or at least they’re telling it like it’s their first time. And what we heard in our very first guest on the show is that this is probably correlated to the fact that entrepreneurs, whether by nature or necessity, are just great storytellers. So here’s high alpha venture capitalists, my good friend and mentor, serial entrepreneur, Christian Anderson, who went in depth on our very first episode on the importance of storytelling in powderkeg. Episode One,

我觉得在不太显眼的地方创业很有趣，这是一个有点不同的游戏。我总是喜欢弱者，我猜这可能是因为我身材矮小。我妈妈就是这么说的。我不确定，但我在阿肯色州长大，我的意思是，这是一个经济上非常不平衡的州。所以，在衡量经济活力的最有意义的指标上，它得到了扎实的49。然而，即使是在这样一个，你知道的，因为落后于时代而饱受诟病的州。你看到的是这样一个地方的特定区域。这当然不是阿肯色州独有的。你如何解释全球最大零售商的崛起?对吧? How do you explain the rise of one of the largest transportation and logistics companies? Walmart JB Hunt, Tyson chicken. Yeah, you know, and Dillards department stores axiom, which was really kind of the original kind of big data company came out of Little Rock, and Adam really kind of the most unlikely places, they actually, you obviously see that around the world. That necessity is the mother of invention, right? And that success is not limited to zip code. But I think most people specifically kind of aspiring entrepreneurs and people who are still kind of trying to feel their way through kind of their ambition of personal ambition levels. Feel that they have to move they have to Go somewhere else, they have to locate to what has historically been thought of as a center of power in order to build a big, meaningful business. And the truth of the matter is, that’s not true. And I would argue that it’s never been true, I would say it’s less true today than ever. That technology has been such a great democratizer In terms of locale, but kind of observing this and being kind of an amateur student of economic development, specifically, outside of kind of tier one cities, it dawned on me that there are really, really big opportunities. I mean, in the finance world, they would call them, you know, arbitrage opportunities, right? And whether it be Indiana, or parts of Ohio, or Kentucky, or Oregon, I mean, pick your state, right? Not all of California is Northern California, right? There’s a lot of areas in the rest of that state that this is true for as well. I’m really wanted to help carry the torch and tell the story about the power of entrepreneurship, and how it can transform communities. And the economic development prospects of what kind of historically depressed economies

在印第安纳波利斯传递火炬的工作做得很好，最近的一篇文章引用了你的话，我们曾经觉得我们必须为位于印第安纳波利斯而道歉。但现在情况不同了。是的。你能谈一下这个吗?

是的，我们现在认为这是一种竞争优势。而且，你知道，重要的是要把欢呼声和事实分开，对吧?因为有一种动态，你必须假装它，直到你做到一点，你必须作为一个人去做。我爸爸以前总说，要表现得像，对吧，你知道的，穿得像你想要的工作，对吧?对于个别的城市，州，甚至国家来说是这样的，对吧?

你是一个做得很好的企业家，你能想到的

可能是全部，你懂我的意思吗?找到非常非常好的企业家。我将从你的第一个问题开始。但真正真正优秀的企业家基本上都非常非常擅长讲故事。这并不意味着他们讲的故事是假的。这意味着他们在尽可能地讲述最有趣、最引人注目、最清晰的故事。那么，有没有哪位企业家是假装成功的，直到他们的产品真正脱颖而出的?问题是，给我一个真正成功的企业家没有这样做的例子。那时候我就得去做作业了。一般来说，他们都是非凡的故事讲述者。 And they’re having to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, in most cases, right? They don’t have enough money. They didn’t necessarily go to the right school or have the right degree. They’re trying to sell a vision for a product that doesn’t exist yet to customers that they haven’t found yet. No, I think that is actually a critical and I’m making a very clear distinction between lying and being a good storyteller and being able to cast vision, and being able to get people to follow you why and I have zero tolerance for, but telling a good story. Being able to craft a vision and articulate that well and get potential customers or employees or investors excited, is an absolutely critical skill. And at the state level, if you look at a state like Indiana, you can literally start with nothing, right, you have to have some raw material, whether it be your brain, or deep pocket books, or as Peter Thiel talks about, you got to know a secret that very few other people know, we can have one or more of those things to really spin things up in Indiana, we were really blessed by having a you know, all the normal stuff, highly educated workforce, the good old fashion, not myth, but kind of fact of the Midwestern work ethic and a number of businesses that had created kind of micro clusters for us to take advantage of from an entrepreneurial perspective. And that’s why when today I say we used to have to kind of explain away why we were based in Indy. Today, we lead with that because in so many parts of the country now, this particular city is recognized as certainly as being a hotbed of marketing technology.

我喜欢克里斯蒂安的一个原因是，除了他那些令人惊叹的南方短语，比如用母猪耳朵做的丝绸钱包，他对在硅谷之外建立高增长的科技生态系统充满热情。他为建立印第安纳波利斯的科技生态系统付出了很多。印第安纳波利斯，当然，是我们最初发展的地方，在我们扩展到其他城市之前。他和他的公司studio science，在帮助我们找到我们的品牌声音和讲述我们的故事方面发挥了重要作用。事实上，他们甚至取了边缘和火药桶的名字。他们帮助塑造了我们与社区的联系方式。188金宝搏欢迎您我认为这真的有助于我们在这里的发展，但我觉得我自己变成了一个更好的讲故事的人，当我和所有这些不可思议的客人交谈时，我对讲故事有了一个最大的见解，当我和我们的客人库珀·哈里斯见面时，当然，我们是在她在洛杉矶的办公室见面的，她正在那里迅速建立她的公司。最酷的是，我们的许多客人，尤其是库珀，因为他们来自不同的背景，例如，在库珀成立第一家公司之前，她是纽约的一名演员，在百老汇工作，甚至在肥皂剧中工作。然后她去了洛杉矶，在那里她爱上了技术和编程，以及她现在和klikly所做的事情。但她在戏剧方面的背景，以及她在戏剧方面的经典训练，让她在讲故事方面有了一些很棒的观点，我真的很喜欢

我认为在讲故事方面。你知道，你学会了开始，中间，结尾，你学会了如何，你知道，你学会了如何加快你的进度，突出重要的偶数句

加速前进，跟我说说那是什么意思。因此,如果

好吧，这个问题有两个答案。好的。即使只是一个句子，也有加速的过程。当然。同时加速你的故事。所以如果你在谈论你的演讲，是的，你知道，也许你以一种非常引人注目的方式开始。给我。非常切题。不是太快。你不想失去人，对吧。 But as you go, you’re building momentum. Okay, maybe this is also how you raise money. Yeah, you’re building. Right? And, and the more momentum you build, it’s like, you’re snowballing, right? And then you’re creating this avalanche, where people are so hanging on to every word, they really, really want to hear where the stories is going, then boom, you hit the climax, and this is the solution. And then the story is done. You can resolve it.

是的。我的意思是，即使在你描述的时候，我也能听到你这样做，加快你的语速，提高音量，提高音调，

但如果你听一个擅长讲故事的人讲故事，他们会很自然地讲。他们甚至可能都没有意识到自己在做什么。但这绝对是事实。

你受过这方面的训练。是的,没错。太好了。所以所以你说一个是你实际经历的过程。但另一个是，也许更多的是你的结构方式。对吗?

是的。好的。是的。这就是你如何组织事物。这个想法，你知道，从讲故事的角度思考。顺便说一下，就科技而言，科技通常是枯燥、无聊、令人困惑、令人费解的。跟我谈谈API。是的。顺便说一句，我不得不这么做。对的,正确的。 And maybe I can actually make it you’re

我一直在等你问我。

太棒了。但是，你知道，谈论API，顺便说一下，快速拥有它是很棒的。但是这样做，让普通人觉得可口，觉得有意义是很难的。所以与其用行话来给人留下深刻的印象，还有那些废话，我觉得只要用人类的语言交谈就好了

重要的人类对话，这是非常好的建议。我喜欢库珀说得这么直白。但有时候，说得最直白、最简单的事情是最难执行的。所以这就是我喜欢每一集的原因，你不仅能得到一些真正伟大的智慧，而且通常都很简单，很容易记住，一旦你发现了这些，通过我们的嘉宾的故事，我们的很多嘉宾也会提供大量的战术信息。我们已经实现了很多东西。每一集，我们的团队都在努力，不断增加观众数量。这是我最喜欢每位嘉宾的一点就是我在这里问问题，你知道，为我自己，也为我们的听众，比如你。所以在策略方面，我真的很想和你们分享我最喜欢的一个问题的答案，这个答案来自我们的连续企业家和投资者保罗·辛格。现在，如果你没有听过保尔森的那一集，一定要回去听一听，因为他是著名的风险投资基金500初创公司的前合伙人。现在，他在北美各地旅行了数千英里，投资硅谷以外的科技公司。118金博宝 And so I asked him this question about how entrepreneurs that aren’t necessarily in Silicon Valley or New York City, about how they could get resources and some of his advice on getting those resources and building an audience. Were some of the best little nuggets in this little snippet. Here’s Paul saying, as someone outside of Silicon Valley that isn’t necessarily going to go into Starbucks and immediately find someone that’s interested in giving them feedback on their product idea, and willing to you know, talk for 2030 minutes about it. And oh, by the way, has some perspective on it. That’s actually helpful. What are the things that an individual can do that’s looking to start up outside the valley to kind of give themself the resources they need to grow and scale?

假设你有一个听众，他做了一个东西的原型把它发布在Product Hunt上，或者进入Reddit的子版块或者类似的地方，然后在那里发布。你知道，如果你有额外的100美元，你知道，买一个Facebook广告活动，把流量引向一个登陆页面，看看人们会怎么做。你知道，如果你有更多的钱，我不知道，你知道，加入一个合作的空间，缠着其他人在那里工作，给你一些反馈。我记得我以前卖车的时候，在car Max是这样的，如果你没有别的事，你就站在门口，就是这样。你不会在停车场闲逛，或者在休息室闲逛，或者做其他事情来认识某人，你只需要把自己展现出来。我不知道，我觉得你还是得这么做。现在，即使你现在正坐在小隔间里听着这个，你知道，朝九晚五的工作，就像，让我们非常清楚你可以做世界上最好的工作。但是没有人，如果你的老板不知道，如果你的朋友不知道，等等。如果你没有得到升职，不要感到惊讶，我认为人们在谈论他们所取得的成就或他们所做的事情时，会有一种奇怪的方式，经常把自己放在那里，就像，曝光给了你杠杆，有很多事情可能会出错，那是我无法控制的，公开市场会崩溃。然后我们所有的投资者，你知道，帮助我们投资公司的投资者可以选择不投资公司，或者像其他成千上万的事情一样，这完全不受我的控制118金博宝，对吧。 But the thing I think about every day is how do I get 150 new email addresses to sign up on my blog every single day. Because the bigger the audience, the the bigger the reach. And the bigger the reach, the bigger the insurance policy that I’ve got. This is the number one piece of advice that I would give to every person listening to this today, which is, no matter what you’re doing today, start building an audience. And it doesn’t have to be big. It just has to be like curated like. So if you’re listening to this right now Google something called 1000. True fans, yes. Right. And read that and internalize it. And as you think about your career, like, remember that being an entrepreneur doesn’t just mean you have to start something you have to like your career, you are going to be an entrepreneur for your career. That’s just how it goes. Whether you work at some big company or you choose to start your own thing, you you are always going to be entrepreneur, you have to think about the 1000 true fans, because that’s your insurance policy.

你听保罗说过，如果你还没有为你的受众或潜在受众建立一个电子邮件列表，你就错过了一个巨大的机会。随着我们的成长，我们的边缘和火药桶电子邮件列表为我们带来了一些最大的机会。如果没有它，我想我们不可能在8个城市开展业务，我们不可能与《福布斯》、《Inc》杂志、《赫芬顿邮报》和其他科技博客建立合作关系。我们就不会像你一样，每天从边缘成员和听众那里得到反馈。当然，如果你没有收到这些邮件，你可以在verge hq.com或www.classicmusia.com上得到它们。但这是开始和发展新关系的好方法。如果你在名单上，我很乐意听到你的消息。但也许你还没按回复，就按回复吧。让我们开始对话。这种关系的建立。 That’s something we’ve heard as a recurring theme on this show, because business really is all about relationships. And one of our guests who really gets this was Kara Norman, who’s a venture partner at upfront ventures, but also a serial entrepreneur herself. She shared all about her experience as an investor in tech starting as early as the 90s. But also her experience as a founder of her own company seedling. But I most appreciated her advice as an investor speaking to founders who are pitching their startup. And of course, pitching is the ultimate entrepreneurial skill. And it doesn’t mean you have to be pitching for millions of dollars of investment capital. This can be pitching for your first customer, or your next big customer, it can be pitching to a really great hire, or even a technical co founder, and Kara captured this. So so well, in her advice to all entrepreneurs, and really anyone who is pitching and selling their ideas,

推销很有趣，因为这通常是你第一次见到创业者。通常情况下，如果他们正在筹集资金，你没有很长时间去了解，这是我喜欢的原因之一。我总是告诉人们,如果它是一个很棒的团队,我更喜欢去了解他们在早期你知道,即使是一颗种子圆形或圆之前,如果他们是一个伟大的团队,因为我们可以了解彼此在六个月或一年,我可以知道他们所说的会议,会议和他们在做什么这两件事联系起来怎样,你会得到一百万件事错在早期的一个公司。所以与其说是发生了什么，不如说是他们是谁，他们认为自己要做什么，他们最后做了什么，为什么要这样做。这也能帮助你明白你又在建立一段长期的关系，你和谁在一起。我的意思是，我认为企业家没有充分考虑的一件事是，当你接受像我们这样的投资者，我们在董事会有一个席位，你就会被这个投资者困住，通常是7到10年。所以他们不应该像你想让他们努力那样想让你努力，你会喜欢和他们一起工作吗?所以，在推销方面，我认为很多事情，比如尽快真正理解业务是什么。那么，你在创造什么问题或者新的机会呢?你是怎么做的? And then not trying to get all information in the first meeting, but being responsive to that first meeting and understanding? I always say, and this is something I learned when I was an entrepreneur, I would study for pitches, like pitches, the way I would study for a test in college, I kept, you know, a Google Doc and I had all my data points around the different ways I thought about market and, you know, this, I mean, just every meeting I’d come out of, and if there was a question, I felt like I didn’t do as well as I’d like to do, or I needed to research some more, I do do it, and I’d write it up. And so I’d study for it. And then the hardest thing to do is to not want to share all that information is too low. So I always tell entrepreneurs, if you walk out of a first meeting, and you’ve shared 50%, of what you wanted to share. That’s, that’s, that’s, that’s good. Yeah, like 100%, not good. 50% good. And then a lot of it is just like not overselling what you don’t know, and being comfortable showing where your vulnerabilities are. A lot of what I try to figure out, if I’m really excited about a company is sort of like what makes this person tick, which they’re dynamic with their co founder, if they have one, you know, because the personnel stuff is the stuff that ultimately ends up kind of being the biggest determining factor. And whether a company does does really well or doesn’t not always the case, but it’s definitely an important one.

很高兴能听到卡瑞从投资者到企业家，再到投资者的观点，我真的很喜欢在洛杉矶与她交流，希望我们能让她回到节目中，她有很多东西要分享。如果你想去看看那集，它只是一个火药桶，第十集，我强烈推荐它，即使你第一次听，它也是一个很好的听，你知道，她讲了很多关于投球的内容。任何推销都会遇到的一件事就是很多人会拒绝。我们节目里的大多数企业家，都以被拒绝告终。但我最喜欢的嘉宾之一是我们的嘉宾Jeff Leventhal，他的公司在科技领域已经退出了五次，其中很多都是卖掉公司或上市。他现在也是一名投资者。但他有一些非常酷的观点来分享他自己处理拒绝的经验，你知道，有时你只需要接受拒绝，接受反馈，然后去迭代你的产品。其他时候，你要学会如何处理这种拒绝，把你的想法社会化，从真正好的反馈中筛选出来。外面有一些讨厌我的人。我来简单讲一下整个过程。 Here’s Jeff Leventhal.

我将和你们分享一个关于它的心理方面的故事，就像人们会告诉你你的产品，你知道的事情，两个小故事。一个是，我曾经从惠普雇了一个主管，他很棒。我对他说，我去，这是，你知道，我们第一次开始，你知道，这是他第一周的工作。我说，你知道吗，你名片上四分之三的人都不会再给你打电话了。他说，你在说什么?我说，嗯，你知道，你的帕卡德，当你打电话给别人时，他们接了电话，他们给你回电话，他们很感兴趣，你知道，你是一个大公司，然后说，没有人知道我们是谁。当你打电话给他们的时候，你会发现25%的人喜欢你，剩下的人都是为了你而来的帕卡德，这对他来说很难理解。在高中时，我写过诗和歌之类的东西，我会和人们分享，人们会说，哦，那首歌太糟糕了，对吧?这听起来很可怕。对吧? So one day, I took the song The lyrics of a Paul McCartney song, and I wrote him down, like, what do you think of this song? Now as Tara wanna was gonna, nobody’s gonna, nobody’s gonna like that song. Right? And that taught me to stop really listening to feedback, and really follow my own. Because I’m, like, I said to myself, all the songs I’m writing be bad. Yeah, I got all these things I’m putting together not make sense to people, right? But people are very happy to be negative on you. So it sounds like Alright, I’m gonna take this, I’m gonna take these good lyrics, I’m gonna present it to the same friends. And they’re like, that’s terrible. I’m like, okay, I’m good. Now. Now I get

它。这很有趣。因为一方面，你会听到不要相信你听到的一切，因为人们只是想批评事情。是的。与生俱来的?是的。但另一方面，你在早期的指路明灯是客户对你的产品有什么看法?是的。你的反馈是什么?你如何区分这一切，这个人只是一个仇恨者和这个人只是想让产品更好?

听着，我觉得如果你在开客户会议，他们开会是有原因的。是的。要么是因为，你有一个他们尊敬的朋友，那个朋友也尊重你，他们想听你说一些对他们来说很重要的事情。他们坐在座位上，你知道，他们会列出他们想要做的战略计划。理解这一点非常重要。所以，即使你在离开的时候没有得到很好的产品反馈，你也会得到很好的行业反馈，你会对你的生态系统中的人是如何看待这个行业的，什么是重要的，什么不是。但你正要离开一个会议，这个人对你想要进入的行业有自己的观点。仅此一点就能给你一种感觉，这与思考商业和在商业中是非常不同的。我要建立一个很棒的支付系统。那真是太好了。 That sounds awesome to me with a bank, right? And then let’s come up with a 1000 reasons why you’re not going to build a great payment system yet. But it’s important to get that perspective. I’m not saying don’t do it. For those 1000 reasons. I’m saying it’s really important, though, to get that perspective.

当杰夫和我联系接受采访时，我们正坐在曼哈顿一个联合办公空间的会议室里。我想，在这个联合办公空间里的每个人都能感受到杰夫的活力和创业热情。我喜欢的是，他不仅分享了创业的高潮，还分享了很多低谷，以及他如何在精神上处理这些低谷。创业和创新的心理层面是我们每一集都要反复讨论的话题。最坦率的采访之一，我们深入了解了很多这种心理学，实际上是我们对Max Yoder的采访，那是火药桶，第19集。他在那集里说的一件事是，世界上有很多东西看起来像魔法，但实际上，这只是一个过程。回过头来听听。我想给大家放一段视频。这是我和麦克斯的谈话。在这段视频中，我和Max聊了聊他是如何将挑战重新定义为机遇的。

斯科特·多西为我做了一件非常好的事情，他让我把每一次挑战都视为机遇，而不是威胁。这听起来很老套，听起来很像，哦，是的，这是一本自助书。可能已经有人写得很好了基本上都是这样的。但这是真的。你要构建问题，你要如何找到问题，我读过一段话，说问题不是问题。这是你对问题的看法，或者是你对问题的态度，这就是问题，挑战会向你袭来，每次他们向斯科特袭来，他只是这样做，他微笑着解决了问题。这比把它看作一种威胁要好得多，让你想退回到你的笼子或洞穴里，然后上床睡觉。因为你会说，我不想处理这些。你在这种心态下浪费了很多时间去担心，你没有足够的精力去真正解决问题。你抱着一种挑战的心态，你会说，我没有浪费时间去担心。 I’m just going to get after it. The easiest way for this to go away is I work on it. You know, and I don’t hide from it. And I know how simple and maybe even lame that sounds if you’ve not tried it, but it took me a long time and then all sudden you just start to default Yeah, into that mindset. And life gets a lot richer. When that happens. Well, I

我不得不称赞你，麦克斯，因为通过你的创业之旅，我认识你很长时间了，包括你在维珍的第一次创业，并成长到一定程度，但这段旅程，你走得更远，只有我觉得我可以告诉你，你担心的事情少了很多。是的。你看起来你的心流状态比刚开始的时候好多了。这对我来说很难。是的，当你跟我说你换班的时候，我很担心，因为一方面，你很担心。在另一端，你有冰冷的挑战作为机会。跟我谈谈你的中间部分，你意识到你在担心，这是没有帮助的。是的。你要怎么振作起来?

是的，我是说，我在试着冥想，因为这很有帮助。但通常情况下，我只是谈论问题或把问题写下来，只是把它记录下来，然后意识到它并没有想象中那么有威胁。但是我只是

你说的谈论，是你一个人对着录音机说话吗?还是你在跟人说话?是啊，你团队里的人?

是的，团队里的人。你知道，我不喜欢让团队里的人背负我内心深处的担忧，因为他们已经有很多事情要做了。这对他们来说似乎不公平。但有时我意识到，当我脆弱的时候，他们有多感激，我希望他们脆弱，我也要脆弱。所以有一种平衡，就像，嘿，我相信这个地方，但这并不意味着我不担心它。这是我的工作，因为我担心我在研究这个问题。埃里克·托拜厄斯，less的联合创始人，帮我重新定义。我说，埃里克，当我们只有八个人的时候，我真的很担心团队的发展。他说，我很高兴你担心它，因为你担心它意味着你会努力解决它。如果你不担心它，我担心你不会去做它。 But if you’re gonna work on it, you’re gonna figure it out, you know, like, you can put enough will into it that you’re gonna get there. And I liked that reframing of worry. So my mind default default story. But the more you practice around saying I recognize that I’m wearing right now and I recognize that there’s not a whole lot of value to it. And I recognize that if there is value to it, I’m only going to uncover it by just working, you know, that’s how I absolve my my worry is I work and it helps. Now I have to stop working sometimes too. And I make music when I do that, and I spend time with my my fiance and those are all really great balancing moments for me, but I just really stopped boring when I start working.

我喜欢和麦克斯交流，因为我们已经认识多年了，但他在过去几年里学到了很多东西。更少地建立他的公司，这是在扼杀它疯狂的发展。在印第安纳州的印第安纳波利斯，在所有的地方中，回去听那集真的很酷。如果你真的听了，在结束的时候，我要提前为我和Max的吉他演奏道歉因为他的软件是一个学习平台，一个学习和教学平台，我应该说。他把他的尤克里里带到了录音棚。我带着吉他。所以我们在那个小彩蛋上放了一点他自己的原创音乐如果你听了那集，那是粉药桶，第19集。但这真的是我们在这里做这个策划播客的小实验。还有很多很多集我们没有讲到，我们请来了一些很棒的嘉宾。所以我希望你们回到第1集到第25集。 Of course, you can find all of that content@www.classicmusia.com where you can go through all of the powderkeg archives. Subscribe obviously to the podcast, subscribe to the email list. I hope you find some inspiration and ideas to apply to your own startups, your own business and your own high growth ideas. Max it’s a nice little symbol